OWP levels for caddo

[hilbili]

I saw Seths post about the levels on the FF thread, and want to ask about the caddo gauge since the re-arrangement.

Does anyone have anything to add to the corps' -1.25 advice. I'm thinking it's been 12-18 months since it was moved.

I use the page alot, and will find the support link to send a little his way.

Just thinking if Fishers ford gets updated, he might change the data for the caddo too.

[hilbili]

today the caddo is @ 6.25'. low @ 5.3
per the corp it's equall to about 5' pre flood. I have only floated it (240 to 70) at levels barely into the optimum stage- pre flood- and had to stand up off my sot a few times to move past an obtacle but I don't call that "dragging". probably 5.5+. It seems like there was some beta on the OWP for the caddo too, but there is nothing there now. irrelevant now? any one do the run from norman last year?

[Jim Krueger]

Hilbili,

I've been floating the Caddo for many years and it's just about my favorite stream. For about half of the last forty years of paddling it, there was no internet, and no available gauge readings, I just tried to use the WAG method based on how much it had rained in the area, and how long before I was heading up from Arkadelphia to go floating.
In the years since I've had access to the U.S. Geological Service's gauge data, I did develop my own set of preferences for what levels constituted a lower (but still OK) level, and a higher (really great) level for the Caddo. Since I have floated the river from it's headwaters, well above Black Springs, all the way down to Lake DeGray, in various trips over the years, I have tried to split my river recommendations down to three major sections and what suited me best for those sections.
I have paddled the river some since the gauge was moved, but not as much as I would like. Based on the new gauge height readings, I have revised my previous, personal preferences. I hope this Spring and early Summer will provide enough rainfall, and I will have time for more trips to see how things are compared to years past.
For my own entertainment, I'm looking to check and see how these levels are;

Headwaters Area - Swinging Bridge 7.25 - 8.75ft.
Swinging Bridge - Glenwood 6.75 - 8.75ft.
Glenwood - Lake Degray 6.25 - 8.00 ft.


Best Regards
Jim

[hilbili]

thanks jim. I'm sure that will be helpful. I've floated from the camp @ 240 once and shuttled up slightly farther with outfitter, but I want to get farther up this year. Is the swinging bridge out of norman on 8? I think to do the 240 to 70 run again I would want it at higher level. do you think your revised upper limits will still be class II?

[Jim Krueger]

Hilbili,

I am sure hoping that these projected levels will pan-out that way. Some years ago, I further tried to refine my recommendations by another two categories that included a really low (but still somewhat floatable) level, and (river going into flood) stages- level for my outfitter friends up there to use as they wished.
I feel certain we'll be making various trips on the Caddo this year, please join in on any you'd care to. If you should look at the town of Caddo Gap on Google Earth, the Swinging Bridge is just West of there on the road going to the Manfred Community. If you zoom in, the few remaining floor boards of the swinging bridge are visible just upstream of the modern bridge. I have some good pictures of the bridge currently, as well as some from the seventies when we were walking across it in the last years of use.

Best Regards
Jim

[Fish]

So what is the consensus for the low/optimal/high cutoff levels for the Caddo? Different from what's on the OWP now? I've managed to get FTP access back and can make the change anytime.

- Fish

[Jim Krueger]

Hey Bill,

Thanks for your efforts in keeping the OWP updated! Currently, I think the old readings for the Caddo on the creek summary are too low since the USGS moved the gauge. In the next couple of months, I hope to get back out there when we've had enough rain to get things going again and make some floats. It may not be a consensus, however I will get back with you later to offer my opinion if you'd like. Additionally, I noticed no photos for the Caddo, I'd be happy to supply a few from the more notable rapids also.

Best Regards
Jim

[hilbili]

today the caddo is @ 6.25'. low @ 5.3
per the corp it's equall to about 5' pre flood. I have only floated it (240 to 70) at levels barely into the optimum stage- pre flood- and had to stand up off my sot a few times to move past an obtacle but I don't call that "dragging". probably 5.5+. It seems like there was some beta on the OWP for the caddo too, but there is nothing there now. irrelevant now? any one do the run from norman last year?

I see now that it was low runnable @ 5.5. Checking forecast (again).

[hilbili]

Is the double posting a phone thing?

And this post didn't show as being edited.

[wally]

looking at my log, I ran from Norman in February 2013 at 5.7 feet which was good floating. In July I made the run at 5.0 feet and it was low but did not have to walk.

[Cowper]

Heck, I LOVE gauges, and this conversation is confusing me!

The note on the USGS page says: "DATUM CHANGE: Because of changes in the channel this gage location was changed on 07-01-2013. The current gage datum is approximately 1.25 feet higher than previous. Therefore users should subtract approximately 1.25 feet from the stage values to compare with the older stage values."

So, when everyone is talking about floating it at this or that level and it was good, was that before, or after July, 2013?

I know when I floated it at ~6.5, Glenwood down, in November, 2013, it was a little low but still very enjoyable. If I assume that Wally's July 2013 float was at 5.0, then to get "new" readings that would mean Wally is saying it is low but floatable without dragging at a new level of 6.25. And good at a new level of 7.0 feet.

So, considering what others have said plus the USGS note plus the "old" OWP trigger points, I would propose this as the new trigger points:

6.5 7.0 8.5

The only one I'm hesitating on is the 6.5' - based on Wally's notes, 6.25 should be an OK float too, but, since folks may be putting on further upriver, I'd rather be a little conservative and let folks just figure that almost all rivers can be floated a little lower depending on how bad you need your "river fix".

[wally]

Cowper, some excellent deductions from limited data. my log says the 5.0 float was on July 30,2013 so that doesn't seem right with the July 1 gage change. That float was close to the Norman end also. Maybe the gage was not adjusted yet. One thing I notice with the new gage is that the movement is dampened quite a bit. One thing I can predict without even looking at the river is that today's reading of 6.15 is going to be low, low floating.
Wally

[Jim Krueger]

The higher gauge readings I'm interested in trying for myself are certainly based on the repositioning of the gauge, and it's resulting readings. However the river itself has undergone some pretty noticeable changes in the last few years that have made what used to be a low, but fairly OK trip, a bit too low in several places.
The main change here , I think, dates back to the Albert Pike flood in 2010. During that flood event, the Caddo was also in major flood, and hugely affected. A week afterward, several of us paddled from Caddo Gap to Glenwood to survey the damage, a week later, we also paddled the Glenwood to Amity section to look at it as well. There was massive tree damage/ removal along the banks. Even more so was the damage to the vegetation of the flood plain along the river. In many places where the river curves and meanders, the power of that event just blasted straight through the meanders, taking all the vegetation and leaving clear, wide swaths down to the next pool. One of the results of this, and lesser high-water events since then had been lots of the gravel, formerly held in place on the gravel bars, has now spread back into the river channels to a greater extent. Some of the places/ rapids along the river seem less changed to me, however several others have really filled in in my opinion.

Best Regards
Jim

[hilbili]

time has come today! 7 months then. tough winter! thanks for info wally, jim, cowper.

[Crane]

I think we just need to do some paddling a different levels soon to find out for ourselves!!