BUFFALO - EARLY JANUARY 2012

[Richard]

[attachment=0]2012-01-05 forecast.png[/attachment]
This is nearly too good to be true. I am heading to the Buffalo. I will most likely go on Wednesday afternoon or Thursday morning. I will be in the Tyler Bend-Gilbert-Red Bluff area.

Moon Phase is perfect.
Weather is incredible for early January
Water level is above 5 feet and stable which means the water will be clear.
I will be doing some exploring. Looking for BSA Ole 97 scout camp, cemetery, house site and spring.

[Richard]

Just got back from four wonderful days camped at Red Bluff. I love the Buffalo.

[Clif]

read my lips

[Shark Attack]

Any chance of an icicle trip Saturday? Gonna be cold Friday night

[Richard]

Clif, do I sense a bit of jealousy
Wes, UPS just delivered two 0º sleeping bags and I have no desire to test them in temps less than 20º. This weekend looks to be a cold one. I am thinking I will stay closer to home this weekend. This of course is not written in stone . . . or icicles. We will have to see what things look like as the weekend nears. My son and his girl friend are coming to visit this weekend so what they want to do will dictate what I will be doing. He says she wants to try canoeing so who knows.

[okieboater]

Richard,

Some feedback on sleeping bag temp ratings.
Beware of that zero degree rating, just based on my own experience.

I have several sleeping bags. A zero degree rating on one of REI's best synthetic bags. Several years ago spent a 18 degree night at Big Piney in that bag with fleece hat, top, bottoms, wool sox etc and by day break was cold to the point I got in the truck and used the engine heater to warm up my feet enough to be able to go outside and cook up some breakfast outside on the picnic table.

last mid october I was in Colorado using my North Face 20 degree rated synthetic bag again sleeping in the camper shell on my truck. Got down below freezing I think down to mid to hi twenties. Started out just fleece top and wool sox, ended up with multiple full fleece and still cold finally I had a full zip rectangular 32 degree bag along and spread that over top of my 20 degree bag and got warm.

Bottom line for us cold body type sleepers take those sleeping bag degree ratings with a big dose of salt.

Regardless of bag, I have had good luck with those warm up packets you see in WalMart etc next to capalene inner socks with a thick wool outer sox.

[Richard]

Good advice Dave. Also a bag degrades over time. My 20º bag at one time was good for 20º. Now it is good to about 45º. Those hand warmers are amazing. I have a bunch but never think about them when I head out. I think I will put them with my sleeping bag right now.
I bought the 0º bag hoping it would be OK at 20º. We will see.

[Eric Esche]

AND as one gets older, sometimes one's circulation isn't what it used to be, and if you take a lot of aspirin on a regular basis and are somewhat more thin skinned than you were in your youth, you can get cold easier.

Same thing as well if you have ever had a significant case of frostbite.

I own two really good minus 40 degree synthetic sleeping bags and a minus 20F bag, along with bag liners, and goretex bivy covers, and thermal isolation pads. I get cold easily, and yes, I have been known to carry a spare bag even on day trips, if I consider it a critical piece of equipment for group safety. What I remember is that I didn't hear any complaints when someone's down bag got wet after having been stored in a punctured garbage bag on an overnighter on the Buffalo and I loaned them my minus 20F synthetic bag with separate flannel liner. And then pulled out my minus 40 spare bag when he was concerned about what I was going to use.

If you dress for the weather, it's really not that bad.

Also nice to have a Zodi Extreme hot water heater for that nice hot shower before bed, and then for doing the breakfast dishes.

Spring time is best time to find used Minus temperature bags on eBay at a more reasonable price, but be wary of shipping from Alaska and Canada on heavy synthetic bags. I lucked out and was able to buy all of my bags new and one of them locally from Lewis and Clark when it was on sale.

Eric

[Richard]

Cliff Jacobson is an advocate of down bags coupled with his system for keeping things dry. I am not that confident so I go with synthetic.

Eric is a good man to have around when on an overnighter. Invariably someone is in need of something and I have yet to see someone in need not be helped thanks to Eric being there.

The two 0º bags I bought were new and on sale. As a precautionary measure, I assume I would freeze in them at 0º so I consider them 20º for now. And my sleeping equipment includes fleece layers as well as a ski bib and light parka.
Which reminds me, I still have not put those hand warmers with my sleeping stuff. Gotta do that.

[okieboater]

My REI zero degree synthetic bag has considerable years use on it. I used it this last fall on some close to freezing nights over in TN and it was nice.

Eric, how about that minus 20 bag size and stuff-ability?

Been giving a lot of thought to buying a minus 20 bag for the few nights I plan to be outside in below freezing weather.

So, Eric any thoughts on sizes and brands to consider? If you can get your bag in your Buffalo Tripper seems like I could as well.

[Eric Esche]

Computer does not like me tonight. Have typed this 5 times only to lose it every time. SYNTHETIC Minus 20F bags for most part do not take up much more room than a SYNTHETIC +30F bag, but some brands do not restuff as well and need a larger sack or a compression sack and some brands make up thier numbers, so it's anyone's guess at times.

Go to a minus 40F/C bag and you gain 30-50% in size and 3-4 pounds more in weight - think bottom1/3 of a large NRS Bills Bag when compressed.

With the understanding that anyone can claim anything unless they start quoting you ISO test ratings, here are some cold weather bags I would be tempted to buy or experiment with if I had to buy a new bag.

Kelty Mistral minus 20. Mentioned them first because I like the old Kelty Minus 20F that I have that weighs about 7 pounds. New ones use Cloudloft insulation and weigh 6pounds 11ounces in long version Mine is old enough to use Dupont Hollowfill II insulation fibers. Compression sack a good idea to add for $20. Bag is $89 at Kelty website

Slumberjack hooded rectangular Elspanade -20F 7 POUNDS 9 OUNCES i mention the weight because they make a +20F bag that is 3-4 pounds lighter with same name. Compression sack another $20 $93.49 from Slumberjack.com
seespecs at http://www.greatoutdoorsdepot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Slumberjack LATTITUDE MINUS 20F -6 pounds 12 ounces - I mention weight as they make a +20F bag with same name 3-4pouinds lighter $82.95 with shipping from http://www.greatoutdoorsdepot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; -see specs there as well

High Peak Mt. Rainier -20F $153.34 including shipping from Amazon 5 pounds 14 ounces said to be waterprrof ANd breathable - again multiple models with different temperature ranges and same name

Eureka EaglePoint Minus 15F $81.18 on Amazon with free shipping 6 pounds 15ounces in long version, compression stuff sack included Specs at Greatoutdoorsdepot.com

Ledge River XL minus 20 $39.90 at amazon Read the 27 reviews carefully. One said he tried it out to zeroF, most did not. Tempted to get one just to see and give to son or try over my summer bag.

Halo Recon5/-20F from imaginegear.com or Amazon comes in brown with a bug net over face 5.3 pounds $225.95

THe North face Tundra is rated at -20F, but has gotten poor reviews saing it is challenged at +10F. I like my minus 40F/C TNF Darkstar but it is 6-8 years old and they keep switching the insulating fiber and design so what you get depends on when made and hold their stock is. They run from about $210 to $300 depending on time of year and if on sale or not. about 7 pounds and needs a compression stuff sack if it does not come with one. Fills the bottom third of a NRS Bills Dry bag.

My super bag is a ApaSherpa II minus 40F/C from Sherpa Adventuregear using Thermolite Extreme fibers. Past my bedtime now so look it up yourself.

Get the most out of any bag by having 2" of insulating foam and a mylar reflecting sheet underneath you, use a bag liner, and a gore-tex bivy on the out side and maybe a space blanket/bivy tube and a pillow, while wearing polyester fleece balaclava, tops, bottoms, socks, and a pair of gloves.

My 2 cents worth and your milage may vary and I'm sure many of you can find better prices. Care and feeding ( how to take cae of a bag) will be in another post if anyone wants it and does not know how.

Eric Esche

[okieboater]

Nice review and thanks for your thoughts. It is ten thirty in the morning and a sunny breezy Thursday in Jenks OK and actual outside is 25 degrees. A good time to think about a warmer sleeping bag.

Actually, I could probably sleep ok in these temps, but cooking and washing dishes would be miserable work.

[Eric Esche]

The Zodi Extreme water heater and the propane bottle make doing dishes much easier, and thanks to Fish, it is a brand new one.

Nice for a hot shower too.

Eric