main salmon private floats

[okieboater]

If you float the main salmon or intend to float it,
this might be of interest


http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idahowhit ... sage/42220" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

oops this might want you to sign in as it is yahoo groups message board if you have a yahoo email sign it that should work or you might want to join the group
it is Idaho White water
here is the first message in the string

You should all be aware of a major change in interpretation of BLM Regulations for groups running the Lower Salmon River. These rules are posted on the Cottonwood BLM website, but what is not there is the way the rangers are interpreting the rules. These new rules apply to any large group that can be defined as a family reunion, a non-profit group such as Scouts, a church group, or fraternities, or clubs (such as a river running club). And since the maximum group size is 30 people, with or with a Special Recreational Permit, the definition of “Large group” means ANY organized group. This means, in practice, that if you take a trip with your family and attract the attention of BLM, you fall under this interpretation of the rules. If you take your Boy Scout troop, you are not only going to attract attention, but you are going to be targeted (my experience). There seems to be a special place in the heart of the Cottonwood BLM for Scouting groups.



Under the “Do you need a permit?” section of the website, it asks “Are you charging a fee?”. In a pre-trial hearing, I learned that this means (on the Lower Salmon) “Is any money changing hands?”. When I asked for clarification, I was told that you are not allowed to collect money to buy groceries or buy gasoline. The ranger specifically suggested that, to avoid this problem, one person must bring the hot dogs, and another must bring the buns. And you are also not allowed to share the cost of transportation to and from the river, so no pooling the cost of shuttles. My reaction to this was that, effectively, they have made it impossible to take a group on the river unless a philanthropist pays for everything with no expectation of reimbursement. I was assured that this is a correct interpretation of the rules. It no longer matters if you run your trip on a “cost-share” basis, as is the rule on NFS and NPS lands, where the main concern is that no one receive compensation or benefit from running an event.



Also, if you organize a trip, make certain that there is no mention of it on the internet. Any public “advertising” automatically lands you in this category of “organized groups” or “commercial outfitters”. Even if you post your information on a private website under an obscure reference, if the BLM can find it by searching on your name or your organizations name, that is considered “advertising to the public” which automatically makes you a commercial group for purposes of enforcement.



If you teach any courses during your trip, keep it to yourself. You are not allowed to teach first aid, leadership skills courses, or guiding, even if you teach for free. If you should happen to teach, even to youth for free, it will be interpreted as “taking money out of the guide services mouths” and so is not allowed.



I learned all of this the hard way. The other thing I learned is that if the Rangers cite you, you have a big problem. The only way you can fight the citation is to go to trial, and if you do this the citation escalates to a misdemeanor charge so that if you should lose, you will have a Federal conviction. This can affect employment, travel to Canada, and all sorts of other things. If you cooperate with the US Attorney, though, and agree not to go to trial, the whole thing can go away completely for a fee. And the beauty of this solution is that the money goes to the Cottonwood BLM Office, not to the Federal Courts. I don’t know how a trial would go, but in the preliminary hearing, it is your word against the ranger. No amount of sworn affidavits, written proof, etc., or corroborating witnesses makes any difference. In my experience, here is no such thing as reasoning with the ranger. you have to go to trial to win, and according to the US Attorney, if you win at trial, they can still come at you with different charges later.



Joe Garrett

[okieboater]

I do not know all the facts on this issue.

It might not apply to us.

But, who knows what the feds will do to raise money.

I will follow on the Idaho Whitewater yahoo groups page and see what the end result is.

[L.A.paddler]

That sounds beyond ridiculous! I hope this is not truly the case.