Save the Turtles!!

[DeBo]

You thought I was joking. No I'm not! Please send a note to Game and Fish and ask them to call a moratorium on the harvest of freshwater turtles. Oklahoma and Texas have more protective laws the we do. Send your comments to Mike Armstrong Fisheries Division Chief at: marmstrong@agfc.state.ar.us


Dear friends,

On Monday, June 8, the Fisheries Div. of Arkansas Game and Fish met to talk with all
interested parties about whether or not to make changes in the Aquatic Turtle
Regulations that deal with the commercial harvest of freshwater aquatic turtles. (Please
note that these regulations do not cover those turtles that are "farmed" on private
property.)

At the meeting it was AGFC staff, mainly turtle dealers, harvesters and farmers, and
three of us were there in support of more restrictive regulations and optimally, a ban
on the commercial harvest of freshwater turtles.

As you'll recall, in March 2009, the Center for Biological Diversity filed an Emergency
Rulemaking Request to Repeal Arkansas' Turtle Collection Law with the AGFC and also the
State Health Department. Audubon Society of Central Arkansas is one of the petitioners.

Neither agency deemed it an emergency, so the emergency rulemaking request is now a moot
point. The link for the original petition is attached. It's a bit lengthy, but has
excellent background and research information for requesting the ban.

At the June 8 meeting, Kelly Irwin, Staff Herpetologist, had prepared a sheet with
suggested changes that would be more restrictive, and the "turtlers" were not happy.
There was dialogue back and forth for several hours and the plan was that the turtlers
would go back to their groups and then offer their suggestions. We were going to do the
same as we waited for revisions in order to take action, but then yesterday we learned
that the proposed changes had been pulled down and there would be no revisions to the
Aquatic Turtle Regulations to begin in Jan., 2010.

Disappointed and surprised? Very!!

All that we know right now is that it's a Staff decision and not AGFC Administration
decision, so we'll continue with our plan to get as many emails out as possible to Mike
Armstrong, Fisheries Division Chief. Mr. Armstrong told me that we had until Monday,
June 15 to submit comment on the petition by Center for Biological Diversity, and now
that there are no proposed changes, I’m hoping that we can mount this effort to turn
that around with our emails. And if you can't get one out with such short notice, please
send one at your earliest convenience since this is a topic that the Fisheries Div. can
continue to consider in the coming months.

Mr. Armstrong's email address is marmstrong@agfc.state.ar.us

Pertinent points are that the turtle harvest is not sustainable and the harvest numbers
reported from 2004 through 2008 have steadily declined. The numbers have dropped from
250,437 in 2004 to 85,424 in 2008. We do not know if this indicates an actual decline in
populations or just a reduction in the reporting by the harvesters or even the method of
the reporting. Moreover, we have no studies to know current populations for any kind of
turtle in Arkansas.

There is a naturally high mortality rate in turtle nests, hatchlings and juveniles, and
maintaining the stability of long lived breeding adults is necessary to maintain
populations. Predation with eggs and hatchlings in the wild is much more of a problem
now too with greater numbers of fire ants and larger numbers of raccoons, and this would
certainly be the time to curtail rather than continue the unabated commercial harvest of
our freshwater turtles.

There is also the question of food safety as these turtles are being caught in the same
streams and waters for which the Ark. Dept. of Health has fish advisories in place. The
potential for contamination with PCBs , pesticides, and heavy metals needs to be
established and to date, this has not been done. (It should also be noted that at the
meeting on June 8, most turtlers claimed that the majority of the turtles being caught
are for the pet trade or for breeding stock for Asian turtle farms and not for food.)

The pressures being placed on Arkansas turtles are now even greater. Oklahoma in 2008
placed a three year moratorium while studying the status of Oklahoma's s wild turtle
populations, the effects of the commercial harvest and the potential contamination of
turtles sold as food. Texas voted to ban the commercial collection of native TX turtles
on public land and waters in 2007. On Monday, June 17, FL will rule whether or not to
ban all harvesting of freshwater turtles, and GA is currently developing recommendations
for potential legislative action. Further, Illinois, North Carolina, Alabama and MS have
already banned the commercial harvest of all native freshwater turtles.

Why is it that Arkansas is doing nothing? We are not even considering if a moratorium or
a ban is needed.

When turtles are shipped live from Arkansas, it’s not known the size or the numbers of
turtles, but only a total weight for each kind, so again, it would seem that more
information is needed. We do not know actual numbers that are being removed from the
state, legally or illegally.

Do know too that Bill Shepherd has been heading up this effort for our chapter and is
currently away, and as time is of the essence, I’ve taken the liberty to send out this
email. I did submit the letter that he wrote in advance on behalf of the chapter, and
that letter has been given to Mike Armstrong.

Sources used in this letter were the Petition from the Center for Biological Diversity,
Commercial Aquatic Turtle Harvest Report 2004 -2006 by Kelly Irwin, Herpetological
Program Supervisor, Ark. Raw Harvest Numbers from 2007 and 2008, meeting notes from June
8, 2009 and other sources, mainly newspaper articles.

Your email does not need to be long and I apologize that this one is so lengthy, but
please, if you can find a few spare minutes this weekend, send that email to
marmstrong@agfc.state.ar.us requesting a ban or a moratorium on the commercial harvest
of native aquatic turtles.

Also free to cut and paste whatever you want from this letter or to send it on to anyone
else that you think would be interested. The campaign will continue!

Thanks,

Susan Hardin

[Ben Rodda]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gn8EQ0azXpQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Whats this guy going to have to do if laws get too tight.

[RandyJ]

Didn't realize there was a big market for turtles. What are they used for? Are these only being taken from the wild, or are there pond farming operations?

[GreenTimber]

I dont think turtle numbers are down at all, I think they're population is getting way out of hand. I spend quite a bit of time on the creek and the places i've been there are WAY TO MANY turtles. I hope they propose a more liberal restrictions on them. Thats where my vote is. just My opinion.

[prophet]

had no idea about any of this, thanks again Debbie for the heads-up.

Green Timber, what creeks have you studied and what is the optimum number of turtles/mile or acre?

[George Locke]

Just curious, but what adverse ecological conditions does an "Out of hand" turtle population entail? Geo.

[DeBo]

I dont think turtle numbers are down at all, I think they're population is getting way out of hand. I spend quite a bit of time on the creek and the places i've been there are WAY TO MANY turtles. I hope they propose a more liberal restrictions on them. Thats where my vote is. just My opinion.

I know that I may not convince you, but I'll try, so here goes:

It may seem to most that there is not a shortage of turtles out there but this is deceptive. While the number of Red Eared Sliders has increased the number of Alligator Snapping Turtles, Soft Shelled Turtles and others has been severely decreased.
Turtles are a very large and diverse group of creatures with an ancient lineage. Their present-day distribution and diversity reflects a long and complex history. About 250 of the total of 320 species recognized are freshwater turtles and one of the most diverse areas is here in the Southeastern US. A majority of freshwater turtles are threatened in varying degrees, mostly by habitat modification and collection.
The next question is, “So what? Why does extinction of some species matter if the number of turtles is still good?”
The truth is that diversity does matter. Studies by several prominent ecological scientists over the last 20 years prove that this is so. The work of Dr. David Tilman and Dr. John Downing, reported in the British journal Nature, "shows that a variety of species tends to buffer an ecosystem against extreme events. Dr. John Lawton’s work, carried out in a controlled laboratory setting, has revealed that species diversity is important: even on an everyday basis, with no catastrophe looming, species-rich ecosystems tend to function more robustly than species-poor ones.
The emerging evidence is bringing a measure of clarity to a subject largely characterized until now by hazy speculation. Many scientists are convinced that if whole classes of vital organisms -- invertebrates, for example -- were somehow eliminated, the global ecosystem would collapse and most other species would disappear, humans included.
Many researchers have believed that species losses short of this extreme case could undercut ecosystem functioning, and that if enough ecosystems are affected the functioning of the biosphere at large -- humanity's life-support system -- could be seriously impaired. It is not necessary for species to go extinct globally for an ecosystem to crash, they fear, but only for enough species to disappear within that ecosystem. And while these scientists have been convinced that an ecosystem will collapse if certain keystone species disappear, they have had no clear idea of when an ecosystem begins to disintegrate.”
This is why the taking of certain animals must be regulated. Not enough is known about existing numbers of many species including turtle species. Without a moratorium on the killing of turtles a number of vulnerable species may be lost forever.

[George Locke]

So... I need to try to get my neighbor to not shoot turtles, gars, buffalo or anything that is within gigging range? The culteral diversity is... I appreciate any help- Geo.

[SteveGabbard]

My motto is "Don't kill it if you're not gonna eat it, but keep in mind what your shoes are made of"

[Lifejacket]

I have avoided commenting here, but can't any longer. I don't think we need stupid laws like me not being able to kill a rattlesnake in the yard, so the kids can play outside. So, please explain what the restrictions you really think are needed.

[DeBo]

I am talking about laws which restrict or prohibit the commercial take of large numbers of animals not the activities of individuals on private property. At present the law says that a rattlesnake may not be killed unless it poses an immediate threat. However, it is important to educate people about wildlife and how to live equitably with them and understand their importance. Learning about the value of other creatures and exploring other options than killing an offending animal is also important for children and adults.

[prophet]

Just curious, but what adverse ecological conditions does an "Out of hand" turtle population entail? Geo.

you ever waited on a herd to cross the road in front of you?

[Jim Krueger]

On one hand, I enjoy eating shrimp taken from the Gulf waters of Louisiana or crab from the waters of Alaska, as do the residents of those states, but on the other hand, I'd think we probably shouldn't allow the sale of any of our commercially harvested animals from the wild to be sold outside the state. In the case of turtles, I've never even seen them offered in restaurants or markets here for local consumption. Really the only folks I've ever heard of eating them were our older relatives and ancestors who caught and ate them themselves.

As someone with only a cursory knowledge of so many things, I have always wondered why the agencies who create and administer wildlife laws
are uniformly known as Game&Fish, or Fish&Wildlife, etc. rather than one holistic name that includes all wild creatures taken for food. I know good management decisions are complex but worthwhile, but I've always thought the differentiation between aquatic and terrestrial creatures, as well as what is 'Game' and what is not, is sort of a murky one. As accepted as it is that I might legally buy some wild-harvested catfish here in Arkansas, I can't on the other hand buy a venison roast, or enjoy Alaska's State bird, the Ptarmigan, when dining in restaurant there.

Best Regards
Jim

[T Yamashita]

I’ll also chime in here for the turtles. Genetic analysis of organisms in the Ozark and ouachitas have shown many of the river systems have populations which are distinct to only that river system. Even though you may think a turtle may look the same, it is quite likely it is genetically distinct from a population in the next water shed. This pattern of uniqueness has been shown in several aquatic organisms across the Ozarks and ouachitas. In fact, recent analysis of salamander populations in the ouachitas have highlighted this distinction with calling the ouachitas, as “sky islands” a term used more commonly in the desert mountains of the southwest. This term indicates that each mountain will have a population distinct from other mountains and very unique. There is an increasing awareness of the uniqueness of organisms in the ouachitas and Ozarks that will likely improve ( I hope) conservation efforts in the state. The major problem with removing native populations is that this area is understudied by science and we don’t really know or truly understand the biology of the flora and the fauna of what is here! For example, we know we had a subspecies of woodland buffalo in the state years ago, yet nothing is know about this species or the elk that were in the state. Can you imagine floating down richland or the Buffalo and actually seeing small herds of woodland buffalo!? Can and should we allow species that we don’t know anything about to go extinct because of our ignorance or overriding interest in the human population?

I was talking to a colleague this weekend that did some daddy long leg collecting in the Ouachitas. He thinks there are undescribed GENERA of organisms in this area. Genera/genus level classification basically means groups of species. What this means is that we have a large amount of organismal diversity in the state that is exciting to biologists.

As far as the rattlesnakes, I’d go for killing the creature as a last resort. I would either try to safely remove it or call someone who could. You may think they are dime a dozen, but many populations are in trouble due to humans, and the western diamondback is about gone in this state. A couple of other stories: Horned toads used to be pretty common in Tx and were even sometimes seen in AR. Yet in the past years, no one has seen very many. Why? We don’t know. Also, the stream biologists have shown there is a unique species richness in the waters of the Little red river system. Yet, many of the unique aquatic life has been lost due to the damming of the little red.

What I’m trying to get across is that what we think are common today will be those organisms that will be rare or gone by the time our kids are adults. The best example of this is the Ivory billed woodpecker that has received so much attention recently. Just think that these birds were pretty common in your grand parents and great grand parent’s time. We lose a little bit of our history each time a species crashes and becomes extinct. We will never know the thrill or excitement past generations had when they saw woodland buffalo, native elk, or heard and saw Ivory bills in the state. We may be able to tell our grand children about western diamondbacks or frogs trilling in the spring nights that we saw or heard when we were kids but they may never see them in the wild. Is this what we want?

I’m on a rant here, but species conservation and the importance of biodiversity is something near and dear to me. I think the argument that something that we see as common today should be exploited is based on sand as time and time again, we’ve seen species disappear because of this thinking.

just my professional opinion.

ty

[Butch Crain]

Great story about snappers at http://www.slate.com/id/2223403/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And a photo of an unfortunate snapper I was too wimpy to rescue - http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/2295 ... 2584SXtIFO" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;